Episode 15: Fight Discrimination with Nimona (2023) and Screen Cares

Intro:
(music) This is Screen Cares. I'm Jennie and I'm Sarah. And we welcome you to our place to
connect beyond the screen and watch better, together.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: This week, before I start talking about the movie, I wanted
to ask you a question. Do you remember when we were brainstorming about our podcast
and we had like all of the ideas and we even had a bunch of different types of ideas even
around movies? Do you remember?
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember. We had so many different
variations. Lots of ideas.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: And I feel like we would have killed all of the ways that we
could have had a podcast, but I remember one way that we talked about, and that was to
talk about movies as sort of a therapeutic avenue and, you talked about a show that you
had heard, what is it called? Do you remember? It's like, Movie Therapy or it was called
Movie Therapy.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Yeah. Yeah, it was called Movie Therapy. Yes,
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Is it actually? So like, shout out to Movie Therapy, and so
this episode is actually sort of in that vein in a sense, but it's even more than that proof
that what we are doing at Screen Cares is like a real legitimate thing. with real legitimate
applications. I have to give props out to you because you inspired this person's question
when we gave each other homework assignments. And you wanted a movie that would
help to kind of deal with some of the sort of sleepless nights that happen, when you're
going through something as difficult and chronic as chronic pain. And so we talked about
the movie Rye Lane.
And a friend, reached out to me a while ago and said, you know, I really love Screen Cares.
And I'm not just saying that because I'm trying to plug our show. She really said, I really
love Screen Cares. I really love the way you guys looked out for each other. And I love
Jennie's question because it was really vulnerable. It was like a very interesting,
thoughtful, vulnerable question. And she's like, “so I have a thoughtful question, and
maybe you can give me a suggestion.”
She's got three kids, one of whom is adopted, and two are bio kids, and the adopted kiddo
is from Africa. And the two bio kids are white and she has been struggling over the last
year with trying to deal with a lot of issues that come up when you talk about diversity
and inclusivity in their family unit.
And it's really hard because they have two cultures. Although culturally, everybody in their
family is American. One of their kiddos has an African culture that they're trying to learn

about and understand. And they also walk in the world with darker skin than her other
two kids. They're very vocal in the Black Lives Matter movement. And in talking about
racial equity, and equality and all of these very important things. But one of her bio kids,
really struggles and says, “Yeah, I don't want my brother to suffer. I don't want anybody
else to suffer. But like, why are we making this such a big deal? What about me?” And her
kids are so selfless. Maybe my tone and maybe the way I kind of deliver that doesn't
sound great. But I think that we can all appreciate, like a kid kind of saying like, “Look,
that's not my experience. I'm not a jerk. I'm not going to hurt people that don't look like
me. Can we stop talking about this?” And so that's what she asked me. She was like, “Do
you have a movie that can help me with this? I basically felt like I didn't. know what to say
because that's really hard and what was even harder is that her kids aren't that old.”
And so I initially thought of a bunch of different movies that would be great for a more
mature audience, and she didn't want anything with a lot of violence in it either. And so
this does have a little action, but nothing really graphic.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: So what is the recommendation, Sarah? What did you
come up with?
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: This movie is Nimona, which came out in 2023. And If I
could actually tell you, like, a movie that for sure would be on my top list of movies
forever, like a permanent fixture, along with Jurassic Park, this movie would definitely be
there. This may be the only animated movie that I know for sure would be there. I'd have
to think about other ones. But this one takes it for me. I love this movie. This was like
something we saw on a whim about a month ago or so. My daughter chose it for family
movie night. And, I hadn't really known that much about it.
And then after we watched it, everybody in our family was like, that's the best movie I've
seen all year, or I love this movie. So it's Nimona. Like I said, it's a 2023 movie. It's
animated, it's definitely like a, kind of like a badass, like punk-rocking animated movie. It's
not a typical, “let's sing with the bluebirds,” kind of movie. It's not that. It's just not that.
What did you think about this? Because I kept thinking, like, oh, I don't know. I feel weird
telling this to Jennie. Because, I know how, your older kiddos, in that phase where you're
like, “animated? No, thank you.” So, how did it go?
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Well, first, in case listeners don't know, if Sarah invokes,
Jurassic Park as a comparison for a movie, that is high praise indeed, like that is the
highest of praise. And so whenever you watch this, I remember you texting me and being
like, Jennie, we just watched Nimona. And I was like, whoa, assuming it was going to be
some kind of like, art house, fancy, Sundance, recommended, three-time, triple award
winner movie. And then I looked it up and I was like, oh, it's on Netflix. It's an animated
Netflix movie. Weird. Okay. And so, I knew it had to be good and we watched it together.
My oldest is 11, my youngest is 9. And yes, as you said, my 11-year-old is definitely in the
like, ugh, animated movies. Um, he's, you know, trying to evolve, um, to have broader,
more sophisticated tastes. And I'm trying to remind him that even the most sophisticated
people can enjoy a animated movie. And this movie is a great case in point. So we
watched it, and we enjoyed it. I think that I think I'd probably oversold it.
I don't know. I thought I might have done it. Well, I oversold it because I invoked the high
praise of Sarah's oldest child thinks that this is the one of the best movies ever. And that

got my son like, “Oh, oh, well, then, well, then I suppose I will. I suppose I will watch.” And
so that was actually what got him on board.
And so the whole time he was like, referencing your son being like, “well, okay, I, I can
understand why he, why they would like this. I get it. I understand.” And so first off, agreed,
a hundred percent, animation, beautiful, off the charts, cinematically gorgeous, like
diverse animation, like you said, badass stuff, outrageously good soundtrack.
Especially hearing it through the lens of why you selected it, super, super, super powerful,
super powerful. I think it goes a step beyond the, I wouldn't say typical, you know, theme
that we hear of like, just believe in yourself and accept everyone. It was a step further. It
looked a little more deeply at some, darker and, more Nimona to us.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I'm so glad. I'm glad that at least it was tolerated. I was
telling, somebody here that I was like, “Oh, I feel like I really just overshot it. I was like, I'm
guessing they're gonna think it's fine.” Cause that just happens. It ruins everything. When
somebody is like, “this is the best ever in the world.” And then you're like, “I mean, it was a
movie. It had a beginning and a middle and an end.”
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I understand though, too, there's something really special
about a movie jumping out and surprising you. So tell me more. What is Nimona for
people who haven't watched it, give us a little summary of what this movie is.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Sure. So, Nimona is my favorite version of a period piece.
We have vaguely, British looking, medieval-ish looking land. We've got knights. We've got
ladies in those British-y, medieval-y looking dresses. We've got castles. But we also have
modern technology. We have surveillance. We have all sorts of lasers and strange things
like that. So it's a world that kind of crosses. Like you've got the medieval stuff and then
you've got some like modern music kind of a deal. It's got that.
There's, you know, two characters, one is accused of killing the queen, and he, meets, this
person, who, can shapeshift into lots of different beings, and in fact prefers to do that.
She talks about being uncomfortable, not being able to be in her real form, which is any
shapeshifting that she can do, her unnatural form is looking human. And so she just really
wants to be his sidekick. They're trying to figure out who killed the queen and how do we
get him to not be the villain of the world, as a queen killer.
And all the while we see his boyfriend or maybe former boyfriend, you kind of can't tell,
like, what exactly is happening to that relationship at that time, and all of his other sort of
friends from, like, I don't know, night school or whatever that they went to. Night as in K N
I G H T, not night as in after 5 p.m. To catch him, and bring him in and apprehend him
being the queen killer that they think he is. And then the, like you said, there's lots of
rollicking, badass adventuring that happens as Nimona, the character that I was talking
about, changes from, rhinoceros to, whale to all sorts of things and, creates a lot of havoc.
And it's fantastic. But there are larger, important issues. And, we'll get into those. But,
before we do, who would you share this movie with, Jennie? We have our fantastic rating
system, Screen Shares Rating. So I was wondering, could you talk a little bit about that and
what you think it should be?

Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: You know, there's a lot of options for this one, because
you've got the Family rating, you've got Little Screen, you've got, Buddy Screen. But
because there's a really strong thread of looking at the past, and there's kind of a
prophecy-esque situation here as well, I think that it would be really appropriate for a
family screen specifically because I think the multi-generational component would be
really nice to talk about.
How do we decide to change what we believe is right? How do we change what we believe
is wrong? And how we treat people over time would be really powerful. And I also think
that it might be a really good gentle way for kids who might not be seen for who they are
or accepted for who they are to watch something with their family where they all
experience accepting pneumonia for who she, who, who she or they accepting pneumonia
for accepting pneumonia for who they are.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Oh, I love that, Family screen. I think that'd be perfect. I'm
trying to imagine what seeing Nimona would be like with like my dad or other family
members. And I don't know if it would go over as well, but I feel like it'd be really fun to try
it. , I feel like we could get a lot of really good conversations if I could get him to stay in
this chair and watch it with me.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Snacks. Snacks. So how about family screen plus, like, top
tier snacks to keep everyone in their seats? Okay. I like it. Okay. I am. You've already
shared that this is something that you want to share with your friend, but specifically what
do you think the screen shares rating is for Nimona, Sarah?
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I would actually go with little in this case, and by little, I
mean like it could be little big. I was really surprised that my teenager who loves all things
rated R loved this movie. And so because of that and because of the themes, and because
it's got Riz Ahmed in it, I mean, you don't get a former hip hop DJ and put him in a movie
and not have, like, a decently cool teen appreciate that. So, like, I think you could get a lot
of buy in. I think Little Screen would be a great choice.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Okay, so we've agreed that we have landed on a Family
Screen and Little Screen. And so now, I can't wait to learn more about why you specifically
care about this movie. Not just why you're bringing it to us today, but what little nuggets
of content and insights did this movie bring you?
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I really wanted us to talk about this movie anyway, but
when my friend asked me about finding a movie that could help her child feel seen, and
that his journey could be understood, but also could help him sort of extend the branches
of compassion and empathy that he has, to understand a plight and situation that is not
his own.
And I couldn't actually think of a lot of good examples that did that, um, that would be
cool enough and that would be interesting enough to engage a kid his age, so that's one
side. The other side is that, we have been talking a lot about representation matters and I
don't want to tire our listeners out to the point where they just can't hear our words
anymore about that because we do talk about that a lot, both like personally, you and I
talk about that. We talk about it on. on our shows. We talk about it on our social media
platforms, and we talk about it a lot because just like how you talk about tacos being

delicious a lot, it's because representation really matters. It's just true. It's just a true
thing.
It just is, but an area that I've been sort of sad to see Is that a lot of folks that will say
representation matters and they talk about, equal pay for women and they'll talk about
Black Lives Matter and stop AAPI hate and about Indigenous Peoples Day and about all of
these wonderful sort of demonstrations of real progress that they are thinking and trying
to make.
I see a lot of weird hesitation when you talk about the trans community or about the
LGBTQ plus community. I don't know why that is and one thing that I have a sneaking
suspicion that it may come from is, erhaps fear, perhaps sort of religious beliefs, it could
be a philosophical belief, it could be just not understanding if you yourself are not gay,
that you might not understand how difficult it could be to be gay or to be trans in a world
where, you know, that is, feels like the minority.
But I also, I think that it has to do with the fact that we don't see it represented enough.
We see a lot of good examples in adult movies. I can think of tons of examples where we
see trans characters, we see gay characters who are characters not just for their gayness,
but they are a character who happens to be gay, which I think is the best kind of
representation out there.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: But we don't really see that in kids’ stuff, and while we
may see that a character on Sesame Street or, some of these other more thoughtful shows
might have two dads, for instance, we don't see trans characters at all. We just don't, and
while there isn't that exact situation in Nimona. I think that is not that difficult to make
that mental stretch that a lot of the language that Nimona talks about really, I think
applies to kids who are trans who aren't comfortable in their skin.
And so when we see her talking about how free she feels, how, powerful she feels when
she's able to be herself, I think we're also hearing the voices of trans kids who are having
that experience. And so I thought it was really important to talk about an area that we
have not talked about yet, and that is not talked about very much, at least, that I don't see
as much support for.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: And this isn't just you kind of guessing could you talk a
little bit more about the creator of this film and the original text it was based on.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: The creator of Nimona, is ND Stevenson and, I I only heard
about this because I told my little sister, who's sort of like an animated movie nerd, I was
like, “hey, I just saw a great movie, Nimona,” thinking I was like telling her something new.
And she's yeah, “I know, ND Stevenson has been on all the NPR shows, um, about it.” I was
like, “oh, I didn't know that.” And she's like, “yeah, obviously, it's like, very cool.” I was like,
“okay, well, I suck.” So I dug up all the interviews, listened to all things considered, read all
this stuff.
My favorite part of the story is that first of all, Nimona came to even be, because there was
a lot of controversy, a lot of difficulty in getting this thing made in the way that it needed
to be made. ND Stevenson was a comic and a writer and created this wonderful story and

eventually came out as gay and came out as trans. And, so I think that a lot of the really
important elements of the story of Nimona, ring so true because that is an experience
that he has lived and understand and understands, which we've talked about with other
movies when we talk about representation, I think it's just so much better than having
somebody tell a story that isn't their own. I think that's just, again, something that we
have to work really hard to elevate in that way.
The other reason why it was important to me was because, with our podcasts, we've had
some little bumps this year. We've had struggles. We have been trying to grow this thing.
We've had some things that have felt like setbacks or just frustrations or, just
disappointments and we work so hard, so, so hard to make this nice. There's something
about creating something with somebody that you care about and creating a product that
you care about. And then when you don't see that go anywhere. Or at least the places that
you want that is sort of painful.
It's like really demoralizing and I'm not sure if you saw this on socials, but one of my
favorite things about Nimona is the sort of like the “that was then this is now” split screen
that they had, and this started as a real rough one page sketch of just these characters. On
a like, piece of scrap paper, and not just a year later, not just five years later, but many
years later now, we have this really fleshed out, gorgeous movie that is wonderful in all
the ways. And... It was important to me to talk about it in that way because the creative
process is so hard. And you know what?
I think that our first season was better than a little scrap paper, but we're getting better.
We're having all these bumps. We're struggling with certain aspects, but we care about it.
And it'll be what it's gonna be. And I think, just thinking about the journey of, of something
felt important to share with you, specifically, too.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I appreciate that. I really, really do. And I, I think that
you've sent me other things, too, that are, like, reminding us that who, how was it, like,
Samuel L. Jackson was, like, in his late 40s or something, whenever he had his first break,
or, when we talked to Lagueria Davis about, Black Barbie, the fact that that movie, was it
12 years, I think, that it took to get it from idea to just reminding myself, we've been at this
for like a year and a minute, I mean not even that long, and to keep the faith and to look
at these beautiful things that people are able to create like Nimona, and they're able to
create it, like you said, because they're digging into themselves, they're representing
themselves, and it reminds me of the journey we went to, to make the podcast of thinking
about, What are our authentic cares and connections? How do we care about movies? And
we care about them with people. And it's nice that your friend reached out to you and saw
you as someone who could be able to help her with her struggle and that she saw that
you were able to help through movies. That's just massive. That's the whole point. That's
literally the whole point is that there's something universal and democratizing about
movies and about the representation that they're able to let you see.
Because if you live in a small town somewhere like where I grew up, you're not going to
necessarily have a chance to see representation in the world, but you can watch movies
like Nimona. And. It's less scary and it's more nuanced whenever you meet these
characters that you can really love and care for.

Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Totally. You bring up such a good point and you reminded
me of a point that I also wanted to make sure to talk about and why I was trying to show
this movie to my friend for her kiddo. I think a lot of what we see and a lot of what I've
heard from some folks that are in my life that are definitely more conservative leaning, is
that they didn't understand gay rights until they had a gay kid.
They didn't understand, Black Lives Matter until their coworker was assaulted, you know,
it's not until you have those like personal experiences with somebody when it's
individualized to you that you're like, “Oh, well, if Bob can be assaulted in the street, or if
my child receives hate messages on social media. This is bad. This feels horrible Now I
understand what everybody is talking about when they talk about these issues in the
news media.” And I think that that was something that really Nimona did a very fantastic
job on and that's why I wanted to recommend this to my friend was her son felt like
because it wasn't his issue, that he was number one being forgotten and number two, he
didn't know how to support his sibling. The whole thing just felt weird. It felt stressful. It
felt hard.
But what I love about the characters, in this movie is we had Riz Ahmed's character,
Ballister Boldheart, and he was not a shapeshifter. He didn't understand Nimona's exact
struggles and kind of just tried to vaguely support her, like, yeah, that must be hard, also
just trying to understand, “So why do you do this? Why don't you just be a girl? That was
one thing he asked her. Why don't you just be regular? Wouldn't it be easier? People
wouldn't hate you. Why can't you just be like that?” Her explanation, I think, actually
helped him to understand, , this isn't really a choice for her. And so it was at that moment
that he was like, “oh, okay, so, like, I think I understand this whole, like, monster versus
not monster concept that is being thrown around our city.
Maybe you aren't a monster just because you are a shapeshifter or because, you have
these other abilities and powers and you appear different than a typical human.” And so...
I was hoping that my friend would be able to use that for her son and say like, “yeah, look,
Ballister Boldheart wasn't experiencing that thing, but his very good friend was. And look
what he did at the end. His friend felt so disgusted with who she was. She felt so hated.
She felt so small in the world and so misunderstood that she would have rather just killed
herself at the end, which I thought was actually really important that they showed. He
came to try to save her, and to try to.
Say, stop, don't do that. I'm here for you. I'm sorry.” And he also owned, “I haven't always
done the right thing. I'm, I've not always been there for you, but I'm here now.” And I think
that was so powerful. And I think that's powerful for a kid to see too. Because that was
one thing that her kid was saying to her was that, well, sometimes I don't say the right
things.
I don't know. Sometimes I'm not supportive in the right way. And he felt bad about that,
but also annoyed about that. Like, it was just, you know, it's a very complicated thing.
And... And seeing that, it's not too late, it's not too late to make good choices. It's not too
late to be curious about somebody. It's not too late to especially say, “I'm sorry,” if you've,
you know, let somebody down. And, it's not too late to hold somebody's hand if they're
going through something like that. And it's also not too late to step off the ledge. I think
that was another message that I really liked in that, is that, unfortunately, trans kids and
kids in the LGBTQ community are more likely to experience anxiety, depression and have
higher rates of suicide.

And, there's lots of complicated things related to psychology and sociology that go along
with this, but I just have to say, if I had to boil it down to, it's probably because it's so hard
to feel “other.” It's so hard to be misunderstood and to be told that you're not okay the
way that you are. And, to think that a child, an adult, any person could go through the type
of pain that we see Nimona, this quote unquote monster experience, I think can kind of
humanize the element for people who might not have a trans person in their life or just a
person who is in any category that they don't understand. I think it's very visually
understandable when you watch this movie. Like, “Hey, they're suffering because of what
people are doing to them. Maybe I won't be one of the people who joins in to the masses
when they're, you know, taunting or teasing or spewing hate.”
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Oh, completely. You said that all so well. I, I think that it
definitely hits on the idea of how hard it is to be other and the point that they made
about It not being a choice for her to be the way that she is and the fact that she would
have been more comfortable if she had been in her shape shifting form as opposed to
assuming the guise of a girl, that was a confusing way to say it. Assuming
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Guise, G U I S E. We're just gonna spell things today.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Um, you know, it's harder for her when she isn't taking on
the form of a shape shifter than it is whenever she's just pretending to be a girl. And... I
want to kind of push on that a little bit, too, because quite frankly, in my opinion, when I
encounter people who try to say, well, it's not real, trans things, or they're choosing to be
gay, or like that whole line of argument.
I always just push back with, so what if they were choosing? I don't think they are. I think
it's very real. They're saying it's real. That's good enough for me. But let's take your devil's
advocate argument and say that it's a choice. Does that mean they don't deserve dignity
and respect and love and safety? I say all of that to just make the, the extension point for
anyone who might feel awkward or difficult not using the right pronouns, I struggle with
this.
I try so hard to say the right things. And like your friend's son, I'm like, I'm trying so hard,
but it can get tiring. I try to remind myself that choice or no choice, that person who feels
other. They're thinking about it all day, every day. I'm only thinking about it when it makes
me uncomfortable and when I feel like I'm failing.
And so I can't, they can't put it down. But our inconvenience or difficulty or frustration or
whatever the word would be, it's temporary. And so the least we can do is. Is be there and
watch these things like Nimona and lift up the people in our lives that we love and the
people that we don't know yet, maybe we don't love them yet, but like, let them into your
heart. I just think that Nimona was beautiful and there's imagery there too, where they
were standing on the tip of the knife. I thought that was a really powerful image.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: It just was so a Godzilla moment for me in a good way, but
so let me ask you this then, do you feel like not being an active jerk is enough, and what I
mean about that is, thinking about Nimona, there are lots of examples where, Boldheart's
boyfriend wasn't actively saying, “oh, she's a monster,” but he was still going along with
the other people. He wasn't actually protecting the person that he knew. So, what do you

think about that? Like, like, real answer, too, because, I think this is so hard. Because
nobody wants to be confrontational, but, what do you think?
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I think that I'm gonna make you answer this question,
too. So, so the question is, do I think that just not being a jerk, just not actively being
hateful In a myriad of ways that people can be hateful. Is it, is it enough to just not be
that, I say, no, I don't think it's enough to just not be awful. That seems like a pretty
bottom barrel line for humans. Like, Oh, congratulations. You were woke up and weren't
the worst.
Um, now the question gets into like, what do you, what can you do? How are you most
effective at helping people? That's the hard piece, right? It's, it's finding how every person
can individually do their best. And I think, just trying when you have an opportunity to be
as kind as you can, assuming the best about people's educate yourself about things, and
also respect people enough to take them as they are and trust that they are having the
experience that they're saying they're having. So there are little and big ways that you can
do more than not being the worst. And I'd say, let's all try to find those things, and movies
can help us. So, what is your answer to that question?
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Ah, okay, so you took all the things that I was going to say,
but made it sound smarter and nicer? Um, but no, I mean, that's a very loaded question, is
not being an active jerk enough? That's a terrible question. That's like saying, is it okay to
kill people in the face? Or like, stab people in the face?
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: No. Strong advocates against murdering here. Right.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: But I guess, it's so hard because there have been a lot of
times when I've been in the world and seen things where I know that bystanders, I'm going
to just call them bystanders, are shocked by the situation themselves just as much as the
victim that's receiving whatever it is.
They're not they don't want to be there. They don't want to participate. They don't think
it's okay. What is happening, but they're scared and also again shocked and also just don't
know what to do and so I Know the answer is definitely no. It is not okay to not just be an
active jerk, but I think the hard question is kind of like what you're saying, what do we do,
you know, and I think you bring up some really smart points, educate yourself, and ask
questions and believe people.
Those are all completely important things that I think so many people forget are like valid
experiences of like a kind human being. And, I don't know if I told you this, because I think
this was right when we were becoming friends, but, I went to this, bystander training
online about, like, what to do if you, did I tell you about this?
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: No, but I also went to a bystander training online. Did
you? Yeah. Maybe we did the same. Was it, there was one by, like, the Chicago Asian
American. Yes. Okay, we did the same bystander training.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Oh my god, this is so us.

Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: That is the most us story.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Before we were even fr oh my god. And it was like, it was
this group that was called, Hollaback, I think? And then it changed to, Right to Be.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I did it online. I had a friend come over. We bystander
trained together. Uh, yeah. And this is all before we were actually even thinking about
having a podcast before Screen Cares was a glimmer in our eye. Oh, my gosh. So tell me
more about your experience with the bystander training because it was huge for me just
being like, Oh, there are a lot of different ways to be a bystander. I thought the option was
like scared or in danger.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: No, totally. I thought the reactions either like become
some sort of like, Kill Bill situation and just like whip out my samurai sword and hack the
hatred away or to run away but like I think that that training was just so wonderful
because it did.It gave you things that you can do. You can distract the person.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Let's link to it. I love a list of things.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Let's do it. I know, but I guess that that's the answer to our
question is no, it's not okay to not be an active jerk. And you know what? For those of us
who don't like confrontation and don't know how to imagine being in that situation, if you
think you're not going to know, that's okay. There's trainings for it. And also, that's okay
because that's human. I don't want to like, say that people are bad people if they don't do
things. But, we've all seen the memes that like, you know, the Holocaust happened
because of all of the people that participated. It wasn't just one person.
We've seen all of those, like, very, very, like, sort of extreme examples. And that's not, not
true. It is true. But I think there's also just sort of a more measured approach that we can
take in our daily lives of let's do the best that we can. Let's take steps instead of like,
Netflixing and binging all of these like horrible things that I've been binging lately.
I can do a bystander training or I can, research something I, that makes me feel weird
because I don't understand it. And so we're gonna link to a lot of things in our show notes.
I have a lot of links. About transgender youth, transgender, equality, because I, I just have
this, this sneaking suspicion that there are lots of very good human beings who listen to
our show that may just not know things about, um, transgender people, community, and
that's okay. That's like totally fine. And so I, we did a little of the research for you. The stuff
will be in the show notes. You can just click it, read it, hopefully understand, or just like
maybe just gain one nugget of perspective into why this is something that's important to
talk about.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: And also a little, uh, a note to the friend's son. Like
there's going to be days whenever you feel like you're failing the people you love and that
you don't feel like you've done enough or that you can do enough, but. It's not in being
perfect and the job isn't done, right? You don't just quit. I heard someone describe being
an ally as always being an aspiring ally because it's something, a choice you make every
time. So maybe it didn't work out that one time. You're like, Oh man, I didn't handle that
right. That's okay. That doesn't mean you're not an ally. You're not someone helping. It's

someone who's still learning and thinking. So you listen to this podcast. Thank you for
doing that. I'm so glad Sarah brought this to us.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Because Jennie and I are just such music nerds. I don't
know, are we like, more movie nerds or more music nerds? Like, if you had to say an
answer.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Since I can't really play an instrument, I'm gonna say
movie nerds. But, I do love me some music. I'm excited, share why you're mentioning this
though cause I saw this on there.
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Yes, I've got the Nimona official playlist on Spotify in our
show notes, but the real reason I wanted to just briefly talk about this is the song by
Metric. It's Gold, Guns, Girls, and one of the repeating refrains in it, “Is it ever gonna be
enough?”That's kind of goes, “Is it ever gonna be enough?” And they go on and on. And it's
like such a good song. I just want to leave our listeners with the idea that. It is going to be
enough and that you're enough and that your efforts are enough, even if they didn't go
great today. It I think will probably go better tomorrow.
That's something that I really want to leave people with, because I know that I've felt like
I've been failing in lots of ways lately, and I think that it feels so good to realize, this one
project, this one interaction, this one day, it might have sucked so bad.
I might have... really messed it up, but I'm still enough, and tomorrow it'll be better, and
everything is gonna work out. And so, um, yeah, like, just go listen to the song by Metric if
you're feeling really frustrated, and it is gonna be enough. You are enough. And watch the
movie Nimona. Yes. Yes. Even if it's animated and you don't like animated movies.
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: So Sarah, you have a lot of really great questions for
Nimona. Do you want to share a couple of your favorite ones you want to leave listeners
with to noodle on or maybe start conversations?
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: Think about an issue of identity that feels uncomfortable
for you. Discomfort often comes from fear rather than just hatred. So ask yourself the
question, what are you afraid of and why are you uncomfortable with elements of
someone else's identity that doesn't impact you, be very curious with yourself. Try to
understand yourself a little bit better. What about you?
Jennie, Co-Host of Screen Cares: How do your relationships with individuals impact your
ability to have compassion? Think about a time when you or someone you love has
suffered. How can you generalize your feelings of compassion towards your loved ones to
someone not known to you? Who is also suffering? Like just challenge yourself about a
time when you've been very easy to be compassionate and is there a path to sharing that
compassion with other people?
Sarah, Co-Host of Screen Cares: I love that. And I wasn't going to do it, but I am going to do
this one. So there've been lots of examples of the public going wild for movies depicting
same sex relationships or simple affection, like a, just a peck on the cheek or a hug. And

there's also lots of examples of suggestive sort of heterosexual content in media that's
marketed to kids that does not receive that kind of backlash.
So I'd like those of our listeners who find this question to feel a little uncomfortable to ask
yourself to compare these two things. It's not the inclusion of sex. It's clearly the inclusion
of who is in that romantic relationship. And I'd again, just like with the first question, be
curious with yourself. Why is it offensive? Why is it so horrible for our children to see two
people who really like each other giving each other a nice hug? What's the problem? And
again, I just think a lot of these like questions and curiosity are a really important way to
go into any situation where you feel uncomfortable.
Outro
(music) Thank you for letting us share our screens with you this week. We hope that you
keep watching for the meeting behind the screen. Don't forget to like and subscribe to
Screen Cares wherever you listen to your podcasts, check out our show notes for great
info and to visit our website www.screencares.com or check out our social media pages for
great resources.

Resources
Nimona – HarperCollins
Nimona Official Playlist - playlist by Spotify
Gold Guns Girls [Official Music Video] - METRIC
Nimona was ND Stevenson's power fantasy. Now, the comic is a Netflix animated film : NPR
'Nimona' is a shapeshifting fantasy about embracing your true self : Pop Culture Happy
Hour : NPR
How ‘Nimona’ Helped Creator ND Stevenson Explore His Emerging Identity - The New York
Times
Transgender Children & Youth: Understanding the Basics - Human Rights Campaign
Trans Youth Equality Foundation
Youth & Students | National Center for Transgender Equality
L.W. v. Skrmetti | American Civil Liberties Union
Rainbow Youth Project
Beyond Allyship | toolkit

What is Allyship? - Black Lives Matter - Guides at California State Polytechnic University,
Pomona
be-a-better-ally
What’s the Difference Between an Ally & Accomplice? | YWCA
Bystander Intervention - Right To Be
Disney Censors Same-Sex Affection in Pixar Films, According to Letter From Employees
Rafer and Kristen (Movie Therapy podcast)